At the BDS protest outside of Max Brenner in Newtown this past weekend I took the opportunity to have a chat to those amongst the counter-protest crowd. I wanted to find out what had made them join the protests against the BDS.
Because there are a range of reasons that people have come out to protest against the BDS Max Brenner campaign, I have noted what people were wearing when I spoke with them. I felt it relevant as it can give an indication of their motivation to rally; for example, those in Australian flag gear were openly Australian Protectionist Party aligned. There were a number of people in “I love Max Brenner” tshirts, I’ve heard these were printed by Newtown anti-Burqa muralist Sergio Redegalli, but I can’t confirm that, though Sergio was amongst the anti-BDS crowd sporting one such tshirt. There were also those in plain clothes who I spoke with too.
The first person I approached was the man I’d spoken with before the rally. He had been pulling down BDS rally posters near the Newtown Neighbourhood Centre and a passerby asked him what he was doing, he was soon yelling at the passerby and BDS rally goers who had gathered. He wasn’t so keen to explain why he was counter-protesting however, simply telling me, “There are a lot of people who could say it more clearly than I would.”
I did have luck elsewhere however.
Person in plain clothes: I’m a Holocaust survivor, I was raised in Poland, I was born in Poland before the war. In Poland my parents were exposed to a lot of anti-Semitism and they were forced out of their village in Poland. Fortunately, we emigrated to Australia. Australia is my home. I love it. And these demonstrators, what they are chanting, for me, is offensive, they are chanting things like there is blood in my chocolate. Blood in my chocolate refers to, it’s um, it’s a blood libel that the Nazis used to justify the massacre of 6 million Jews. Blood in my chocolate refers to Christian children’s blood that the Nazis said the Jews used to make their food, which is really abhorrent to me, and it’s vile. What they want is for Israel not to exist. They are chanting the Hamas mantra. The Hamas mantra is that Israel would no longer be a Jewish state, which means that the Jews that live in Israel would be subject to another genocide. My people have already been subject to a genocide. And Max Brenner has nothing to do with it, they have a very tenuous relationship with the Strauss Group in Israel. It’s so tenuous you can compare it to McDonalds and America. I think they are a bunch of anarchists and trouble-rousers.
Now into the thick of the Australian Protection Party front-line:
Woman in Australian flag bandana: I’m here to support Max Brenner. I’m here with my friend today, I’m not a member of the APP (Australian Protectionist Party). Max Brenner supplies the Israel Defense Army [sic] with chocolate and stuff …
Me: So that would be a good thing?
Woman in Australian flag bandana: Yeah. It is. There’s no such thing as Palestine.
Woman’s APP friend [pointing at BDS rally]: It’s very ignorant. Uneducated. This business is paying Australian taxes. He’s employing Australian people, paying his taxes, doing the right thing.
And over to the “I love Max Brenner” crew stood beside the APP:
Me: Do you want to tell me why you’re here today?
Man in “I love Max Brenner” tshirt: Yeah. Because hate towards Israel is growing right across the Western world, not only the Middle East, ok? And if you let it grow like that, without standing up against that trend you’re going to have a repeat of history. I believe if you talk to these people over the other side of the road here individually you’ll find they are grossly ignorant of the facts. They don’t know Middle Eastern history, they don’t even know the history of the West. They’re over there because somebody has told them things that they haven’t examined themselves and uh, they think maybe they are doing the right thing in what they are doing but it’s going to… all it’s going to produce is what we’ve had in the past.
Me: What should happen to Palestine?
Him: Well. They’re yelling out over there ‘Free Palestine’, well, ok, free it from Hamas. You know, read the Hamas charter, the Hamas charter is a foundational document for the Palestinian people at the moment. They voted Hamas in. Have you read the Hamas charter? I’ve read it. And when I read… within there I see a hatred and something that will feed hatred against a people called the Jews and a state called Israel. And it’s obvious to see if you look in the Middle East, what is the free country in the Middle East? What country has freedom of speech, freedom of association?[few seconds of indecipherable comments due to loud chanting]
I think this. If someone is firing rockets at me, almost daily, and if someone has a charter that says the Israelis must be obliterated, literally, that’s what it says, it quotes Hasan al-Banna in the Hamas Charter, and it says that Israel must be obliterated, not we want our own separate state -
Me: So is the current situation the best way to resolve that?
Him: I don’t understand your question.
Me: Settlement expansion in the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza.
Second man, interjecting: How old are you?
Me: 25.
Second man: I’m a bit older. I’m coming close to 60. That land wasn’t Palestine before. It was Jordan, Jordan, they never claimed to get freedom for Jordan, they never claimed to get freedom for them, but when its the Israelis they say ‘yes it’s my land’ [a couple of seconds indecipherable] it’s all bullshit, it’s never been occupied, it’s been occupied by Jordan [indecipherable] it’s all propaganda, I was born there, I’ve been in two wars.
Me: Where were you born?
Second man: I was born in Israel, my dear, I’ve been in two wars. It was occupied by Jordan, they have Jordanians, not Palestinians. It’s been disputed over the last century.
Me: Ok so are you guys going to keep coming back to these protests?
Second man: This is a free country, they can’t come and do this, this is ridiculous. I don’t know why they do this, they’re idiots.
And back to the plain clothed folk. This young woman approached me asking if she could explain why she was there:
Young woman in plain clothes: This situation is a mess, it’s a real mess.
Me: What situation, the rallies, Israel-Palestine?
Young woman: The rallies, the Middle East. We’re not going to solve problems by fighting and screaming at each other across the street. We need to build bridges and stop fighting. I think both sides have a just claim to the land and both sides need to make concessions. I think the Israelis should share Jerusalem, because the Palestinians have a claim to that land. The Palestinians need to let go of the right of return. And I think that can happen. But basically, both sides are being stubborn and they are both digging their heels in and preventing peace. So yeah, we just need to not hate each other so much, and here in Australia there is no reason to hate.
Me: Did you come on purpose today or were you just walking by?
Young woman: No, I came on purpose.
Me: To, which one?
Young woman: Uh. I believe, I, well. Well I’m a Jew. I believe Israel has the right to exist where it is, I believe that there should be a two-state solution. I believe that Israel should withdraw from the settlements that in the two-state solution won’t fall into Israel, because I mean, the place is going to get divided. Some of the settlements will become Palestinian territory and some will become Israeli. I think they should stop building for the moment while they are trying to make peace.
I had other conversations that touched on similar concerns (ie. Hamas is actually the problem, Palestinian doesn’t exist, BDS protesters want to obliterate Israel, BDS protesters ignorant of situations, as well as those who were insistent it was anti-Jew not anti-Israel etc). There were the two young men who had dropped by on their way home from work, they said they just didn’t like “greens”, pointing toward the BDS protesters. I also had one woman speak at me for several minutes about how the Bible had proved the land of Israel was given over to the Jews and so on. Others still simply waved Omo or Lux in my face when they realised I was probably not there to rally along side them (one APP slogan was ‘smelly ferals go away’, so they taunted BDS protesters with cleaning products like laundry detergent and soap).
Thanks for this post Kate. I think it’s really important to understand what’s driving the people that are most vehemently opposed to BDS/justice in Palestine. It’s possible that those people will never change their opinions, but we still need to take their arguments seriously (and carefully demonstrate why they’re misguided, etc.) in order to inoculate the wider population. Thanks again!
Great job Kate… I’m the one in your first picture on the top left. I like that you took the time to chat to people you can learn so much. I tried to chat to some of the people protesting on the BDS side to find out where they got their inforation from but the best answer I could get was google (and we know how reliable that is..NOT!!) Keep up the good work!
Strange how both side are saying the same thing, ask a good question and you will get a good answer. Ask stupid questions and people will not even try and talk to you.
The Socialist Left in Newtown have a very big problem, no one trust you, every time someone talks to the lelf the information gets twisted around.
Try one on one in a coffee shop away from the crowed, and try asking “WHY” before being close minded,
Remember, if you have not been there, if you have not lived in other countries yet, be open minded that you could be wrong in your information.
Dear Ruby, in relation to your question where do people in the BDS campaign get their information, I am happy to try and answer your question. I am a long time Palestine solidarity and social justice activist and I co-organised the first national BDS conference held in Australia (in October 2010).
I am not sure if you are asking where we get our information about Max Brenner and BDS and/or the situation in Palestine, so I will answer all three.
In relation to Palestine, my information on Israel’s occupation and apartheid polices comes from a number of sources. I lived for a year under Israel’s occupation in the Occupied West Bank (and now visit when I can), so I have witnessed Israel’s repression, occupation and apartheid practices first hand. I work with Palestinian, Israel and international activists in the Occupied Territories and in Israel. I write extensively on the issue and speak regularly on the issue of the conflict.
Many other people involved in the BDS campaign have also been to the Occupied Palestinian territory and have witnessed first hand Israel’s brutal occupation of the Palestinian people. We also have people involved in the campaign who have not been to Palestine but are passionate human rights activists, who have educated themselves on the issue. There is extensive information and eyewitness accounts of what goes on in the Occupied Territories and in Israel, which have been written not only by people like me who have seen the situation first hand but also by Palestinians themselves, as well as Jewish activists, some of whom are Israeli and others who are from countries outside of Israel, all of whom are opposed to the Israeli government policies. There is also a lot of material written by independent journalists on the situation, including Israeli and foreign journalists.
In relation to BDS – I have interviewed a number of times the Palestinian founders of the BDS campaign and I also am in regular contact with Israel Jewish citizens involved in supporting of the BDS campaign in Israel (who have sent letters of solidarity regarding our campaign in Australia). The BDS campaign runs a global website with the relevant information about the BDS campaign, which includes guide lines for the campaign. I would encourage you to have a look at the site and read initial 2005 call for BDS issued by Palestinian civil society and to also read the guidelines for the BDS campaign.
Despite claims by Zionists, BDS does not target “Jewish” businesses, it does not even target businesses simply because of the owner’s nationality. In order for a business or institution to be a BDS target it must have links to or be supportive of the Israeli state’s occupation and apartheid policies. This is the case with Brenner via its parent company, Strauss.
Brenner is wholly owned by the Strauss company, one of Israel’s largest food and beverage companies, which actively supports Israel’s military occupation forces. On its website, the Strauss Group emphasizes its support for the Israeli military, providing care packages, sports and recreational equipment, books and games for soldiers – thus it actively supports Israel’s occupation forces and their repression of the Palestinian people.
In particular, Strauss boasts support for the Golani and Givati Brigades, which were heavily involved in Israel’s military assault on the Gaza Strip in the Winter of 2008-09, which resulted in the killing of approximately 1,400 Palestinians, the majority civilians, including approximately 350 children. While Strauss has removed information about their support for the Golani and Givati brigades from their English language website, information about the company’s support for both brigades remains on their Hebrew language site.
In relation to the atrocities committed by the Golani and Givati brigades, this information comes from not only groups like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and other such groups, but also Israeli newspapers, Israeli historians and Israeli government websites.
I would be interested to hear where you get your information from…
Kim your information is so text book BLAR BLAR BLAR.
Have you been there?
Do you trust Hamus? and if you do, you should move there ASAP.
Do you know the history of the area really well, (last 5000years?)
Do you talk to anyone other than BDS = (bad Dumb & stupid) people.
Sergio, seriously, that your response? Its clear you did not even read my response, if you are asking “have you been there?”. I stated at the beginning of my comment that I lived in the Occupied West Bank for a year and that I visit there regularly.
Your response is to use your own words “so text book BLAR BLAR BLAR”. You clearly don’t speak with anyone except Zionists and its clear you have no interest in hearing anyone else words or voice except your own and other Zionists, otherwise you would have actually engage with what I have written rather than giving the standard Zionist rote hasbara response.
Fortunately, this Zionist hasbara/propaganda which you are so willing to repeat by rote, doesn’t hold any sway anymore with anyone except Zionists who live in their own bubble which is completely separate from the reality which most other people live in.
I trust the Palestinain people and I work with the civilian popular resistance – a non-violent civil resistance movement of ordinary Palestinians. This is who I trust – ordinary Palestinians who are struggling for freedom and justice. I also trust the Israeli Jewish activists who I work with in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, all of whom are amazing human beings and activists who have the courage to stand up to their government and say not in my name. And I trust the international activists, many of whom are Jewish, who also stand in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Its pity you are so brainwashed that you can’t even engage with my previous post. What is even more sad for you is that you don’t even realise that it is you and your fellow Zionists who are at the forefront of “delegitimising” Israel, not the BDS campaign.
Interesting to note that none of my comments saw the light of day.
I never spoke with you, Darrin. I didn’t want to interrupt your charming chants. You’re welcome to contribute your perspective here in the comments, however, if you feel it necessary.
How can you claim being independent when you start from a stance of “occupied Palestine”. You have already provided a biased and one eyed approach. You and your supporters claim that one should talk to the BDS supporters as they are misguided. Well come and talk rather than shouting your slogans that start from a basis of attack. If you want to learn then start by discussing rather than just blindly following your leaders who have themselves an agenda. They don’t like being jewish- they use the label as a way of saying “see it must be o.k because jews say it is” . This is wrong. On the alternative the BDS leaders are cCome and talk to the jewish people there at Max Brenner’s who are very disturbed about the way your BDS supporters are chanting. I know Kate writes that your chants are not antisemetic- let’s face it- anything can be justified and talked away if you want to however if the jewish people there feel it’s about the destruction of Israel because it’s the Hamas chant and if they feel that the blood in your chocolate is the old blood libel which led to the pograms by the Russians then it is -because that what bullying and intimidation is about and if you think that it’s not then don’t do it now that you know how people feel. The other thing that is disturbing about the people on your blog and those who support BDS is that they use the word”Zionist” as though it’s a swear word- I am sure they would hate themselves seen as naziloving islamofacists” so I would think that the right of self determination for jews which is what zionism is should be well in line with the idea of self determination of the palestinians. It’s about time the BDS supporters actually reflected on what they are agreeing with including some wider reading than just the Green Left weekly and the other left wing writers- and really think about why jewish people may think that all the BDS sees is one side and never looks at the other -a total lack the empathy to see what their chants and rallying portrays. Kate, Kim and Antony etc can try and explain away using all the excuses they can muster but if it smells like shit and looks like shit then it’s shut- pure and simple.
the APBPC is alive and well in Newtown (Anti Political Bill Poster Coalition) – noticed how socialist racist propaganda never lasts more than a few hours? ha ha ha
Anthony, your such a tool, try staying out of Newtown and let the locals try and solve the negitivity that the BDS has created.
The only good thing to come out of the BDS is the the Greens and Socialist Left (all there diferent names) have been expossed.